This is a special episode with some of the most inspiring, motivating, and funny segments from this year’s interview.
I just want to use this opportunity to thank you for listening to the Emigrant’s Life podcast. It’s been a great first year and I look forward to delivering to you more great stories in 2021.
Feel free to reach out to me at [email protected] and I hope we can meet at some point.
I wish you a happy new year, stay safe, and keep dreaming big!
Daniel De Biasi
Daniel De Biasi 0:02
Hi, everyone, and welcome to this special episode of the immigrant flight podcast. I hope you had a good Christmas. I know some of us couldn't, couldn't celebrate with family, some because of COVID some because we're in different countries. But I hope you had a good time and hopefully, that technology helped us to to see our family and the people we love. In this episode I want to do like rewind of the highlights of this year 2020 has been a definitely a challenging here. It's been a challenging for people that live abroad to be able to go back there people that wants to move abroad, it's been challenging, even more challenging, because travel restrictions. So awfully 2021 will be a much better here. Hopefully, we'll be able to travel back, some of us can go back and see the family. Some of you, if you are one of those listeners that are planning to move abroad, awfully 2021 will be easier to do that. But I want to just use these as a special episode to close the year with some positive messages, some motivational messages, all the best I could take from all the beautiful stories. And also I want to thank all of you, all the listener all my guest has been really a blast this year, even though it was challenging because of ministry consensus, but at least for me, was a good to hear because I had the opportunity to start this podcast and meet and connect with some of you. So thank you very much. Thank you for listening to this podcast. I want to start from the very beginning. My very first episode, my interview with Audrey. I just want to say that I was so nervous when I started the recording. Even it took me probably a few minutes just to start asking the first question I couldn't I couldn't say I could even start a conversation. I couldn't start this interview. But oggi was great. And the result was actually pretty good. Even though the quality wasn't the greatest. I didn't even have a microphone at the time I bought the microphone just after the interview. I selected this little bite of the interview where she talks about resilience where she talks about why or what could have brought it or to move abroad and what helped her to move abroad. So without further ado, let's listen to this highlight from from Audrey from the very first episode.
Think that you know as a child, we moved a lot. So for me change was normal. You know, we lived in Dundee, we moved to Glasgow, we moved down to Wakefield, we went to Birmingham, we went back up to the south of Glasgow, like there was a lot of moves and a lot of changes school changes for me as I was growing up. And I think that gave me a resilience that helped me and probably fueled me to leave the UK and seek you know, something better outside of the shores of the UK. And I think that by the time I landed here, having moved from the Middle East to here to tie up and back again. It definitely helped me and it gave me a broader outlook. You know, my mom used to say that the next best thing to a good education is travel because we just learned so much when we're traveling. And so I just learned so much that I just took for granted, you know, the way you know, I mean, when I arrived in the Middle East I was only 19 I mean I was I didn't know anything really. And I just took it all on my stride you know, Ramadan, eat, you know, the different customs, you know, the clothing, you know, and I think back about it, you know, now I just sort of just took it as Oh yeah, that's what they do here. That's how they do it. But But I learned a lot. And I think it made me you know, more broad minded, and I'm sure it helped me when I got here.
Daniel De Biasi 3:45
Okay, let's move to the second segment, which is from the second episode with Theodora I think they all episode with Dora was actually pretty, pretty motivational story in the way she delivers or message. It's very motivational. This segment from the interview is when I asked her what was the upside about being an immigrant. And this was she told me,
I think I learned to appreciate. And even I changed the way of my how I think, in the way I see it sometimes. Because English people, they're very popular with a good manners. So I believe that I always like this big part of how they behaving in front of people and in their houses and all these things. You know, I like this type of English manners. Are they given here? They gave me confidence to believe myself. Yes, because let's face it, I don't have the same sort of, for example, my colleague in my job, we didn't have the same stance. But we're here we're here and the same level, and I'm willing to go further. So this is the confident this is something that drives me forward and keeps me keeps me going and pushing me Because I'm saying to myself, no, I came 10 years ago, and I did what I did. And I'm willing to do even more. So I'm capable, I can do this. Yeah, I think that's the most important thing this country gave me. And I'm really, really grateful for this. Okay,
Daniel De Biasi 5:17
let's move forward to episode number three with Robin, I selected this section of the interview, because I think are really, really resonate with me. And he talks about the safety net, he talks about when we leave our country, we leave our comfort zone, we give away the safety net, and it describes the net, as a family, your government, whatever makes your life comfortable. And it's something that can catch you if something goes wrong. And usually, that's your family and your friends, or whatever you have created around you that keeps your comfortable. And when you move abroad, you don't have that anymore. I don't know if the same is for you, or is the same for everybody. I don't know, I definitely something that could relate to it. And really like are we explained as a safety net, I think I started using this metaphor of the safety net from this interview with Robin, I think about not having a safety net as an upside of being a being an immigrant. Because I think like you will listen in this recording that when you don't have the safety net, you can give 100% of what you have. And that's that's what I like about it. But let me know, if you go to m&s live.com slash spatial 2020 You can find the show notes for this episode. And if you scroll all the way to the bottom, there's a comment section, if you like to let me know if you agree or disagree, or what's your takeaway of what's your upside about being immigrants, you can leave it there in the comment section. And now let's see what Robin said about the upside about being an immigrant.
I think it removes all those safety nets. I think when you're in your own country, you have a lot of safety nets. And you are thinking well well, you know, if you know if that doesn't work you as other backup our friends and family all the time if that doesn't work, you know, you know, there is the you know, you government is helping you on all that. But when you emigrate, you feel like you have to make it all you know, yeah, oh, you're not gonna eat. It's not really that, you know what I mean? So I feel like it kind of really it but it's yourself still, but it's yourself on steroids. So we know when it was time for me to start business and to do this and to do that, you know, it's kinda like making a bracket. And I think that's really the best upside for when you you decide to go because well, you know, you can connect and you can Skype with your friends as much as you want that no hair to get you back your you have to have you on back. And I think that's the best thing. Because under pressure, I feel like people perform better.
Daniel De Biasi 7:43
Yeah, no, no, I can't agree. I can't agree more. That's the reason why I left New Zealand to move to Canada because I felt I was I was too comfortable. I had my I had my side hustle, I was working on my things at night, and work into the day it just like I have my my nine to five and my extra extra time I was doing for my working on my site. So I was just feeling too comparably. Like I wanted to go back to put myself in trouble. That's how I want to call it as I want them to move to New Zealand, therefore you perform 100% Yep,
I couldn't be more.
Daniel De Biasi 8:18
The next highlight is from my interview with Paul, if you haven't listened to this episode, yet, Paul is a professional mountain biker, originally from Canada, actually from air from Vancouver where I live. And he had the opportunity to move to Japan because of his career as a professional mountain biker. And in this segment, Paul is talking about the benefits he saw on his body as a professional athlete after living in Japan for a few years after eating Japanese food and having access to local natural offsprings. And this is approved that as an athlete, for him moving abroad moving to Japan was actually a great thing for his body from my professional career. And these is what he said in the interview.
But you know, these hotsprings having him in my backyard is was was like you're going to get get relaxed every day. It was like having a massage every night little little things that kind of help you as an athlete to to get better, right and to just be be resting and having a great diet. I went back to Canada and had a massage from this this girl who knows me quite well and she's like, what have you been doing Paul? I'm like, You know what? I just liming smarter, right? The diets better for me and she's like, I can just tell giving you a massage that you're on right now. Right? And I go Yeah, I feel great. And and this is this is you know, I thought I was a pretty elite athlete in Canada, you know, but she's like, I can't believe your muscles are way better. And this is after two years of not seeing her. And you know, that was some sort of you know, for me that was a you know, a girl who she was actually world downhill champion, this woman, first world woman's downhill champion Cindy divine, which is actually a physical therapist, and she she knew me very well and then What a compliment. It was for me after two years, so I can't believe your body mass beautiful. Oh, okay. She was just just massaging me, right. And she could tell. So there's all sorts of little things that that I think just came together for me in Japan, I definitely got better as a bike rider. Way better way stronger.
Daniel De Biasi 10:22
The next ilight is from interview Jess, where she talks about the first time she got a job abroad. If you plan to move abroad, and you don't know how to do it, I highly recommend listen to this episode with Jess because she shares a lot of tips of how she did how she managed to find a job before moving to the country. And she makes it sound very easy. So I highly recommend to listen to that. But for now, let's listen to this part of this episode where she talks about her adventure of getting ready to leave for the first job abroad.
It was a very quick turn around to my Seattle when actually because it's getting to the end of the season. And I hadn't really committed fully so I think this was the summer camp season starts like June, June time. So I had an interview on a Wednesday, Wednesday afternoon with a camp in Seattle. And they were like, yes, we want to offer you the job. But we need you to be in Seattle on Friday. This is the first time I'd ever the longest play. I've been to Dhoni been to Barcelona. It's like two hours, I'd never flown by myself, I didn't even own a suitcase at this point. So I had a sort of 36 hour window, they had to tell my friends and family like a Friday morning and flying. Also, because the company arranges your flights out. I didn't actually know where I was flying from. So I couldn't book any chance. I knew it wasn't going to be from Cardiff because we only have a tiny little airport. So I had to wait for them to get my flight. So if I could arrange transport from Cardiff, to whatever airport in London, with a coach from Cardiff to the airport is usually five, six hours. And so yeah, it was just a crazy 36 hours and to buy a suitcase I have to I also had two cats, which I had to pack up and give to my mum to mind for the three months. So it's just a crazy 36 hours of being like goodbyes by a suitcase. So the cats out pack what I needed, because I was like, What do I need? Like, what is Seattle? Everyone told me was going to be raining. So I was like, well, do I take like what am I doing? So yeah, that was super crazy. And then the Friday afternoon, then I arrived into Seattle. So within a space of 48 hours, had my interview, got accepted and flew to Seattle. And speaking of moving abroad for the first time Next,
Daniel De Biasi 12:39
I like this from my conversation with Daria, when she realized that she didn't want to stay in Ukraine any longer. She wanted to move to the US. And she have to tell her mother. And that's what she said in the interview.
I remember this day, I took my mom to Montenegro for a vacation. And we went to this like, trip to the lake. And we were driving back in the beautiful road. And it was the look in the sea. And I was thinking and reflecting. And then I realized that I'm not happy. And like I have everything kind of but I'm not happy. And it's time to realize my dream and most of us. So there was a time and I told my mom and I bought one way ticket the same day. And I gave myself deadline, one month and a half to prepare for the move to like sell everything to let go my apartment to like, you know, give away all this stuff. So yeah, this is always a reason to just I wouldn't have a change. I, I felt like, you know, I love Ukraine. It's a great country. However, the government is so corrupted. And I didn't see a new future, not for myself. Not also for my future kids. I know it sounds weird that I'm like a single woman without kids thinking about kids, but probably it's on them. You know, instincts are something help us to think about it that if we want to reproduce ourselves what future want to have for my kids. And when I gave for the first time they asked, I look around and like I want my kids to you know, grow in the being raised in the country like this when you have a good quality of life, freedom of speech, and you know, other things. And when I was moving here, I knew is gonna be hard for me. But I was thinking about my future kids are gonna say Thanks, Mom. So, and, you know, I decided to take a risk and I had zero regrets about it.
Daniel De Biasi 14:39
You saying that you got a ticket, a one way ticket, you were with your mom. How did your mom take the decision?
This is a very good question. Probably, you know, based on your experience, I'll tell you, when I came for the first time from us and it was probably like four years or five years before I moved. I told my Mama Mama, oh my god, this is such a beautiful country. I when I moved there, he was hysterical. He was crying, she was crying. She was like, seriously, she didn't take it? Well, she's like, what are you gonna, what I'm gonna do? And then you know, I kind of prepared her for this, say a thought and a do over years. And when the time came, and also, you know what, how she started traveling a little bit with me. And I showed her a different world. And she realized that the Some things are much better than just, you know, taking care of your household and saving money to buy a new like dishwashing like thing or machine or something else. She realized that there's going to be better for me. And hopefully one day, when we have a better political situation, everything else I'll be able to bring my mom here. This is my obviously, of course goal eventually when I can. And you know, it takes time. And now it seems like nearly impossible with them my current situation, but we'll see. So she took it. Well, she took it well, but you know, it took me like four or five years to prepare for this moment.
Daniel De Biasi 16:05
Okay, let's continue with stories of the first time leaving the country. The next highlight is from a conversation with Eva. Eva was also born in Ukraine. But when she left the country, Ukraine was still part of the Soviet Union, at that time was really, really hard to leave Soviet Union. And if you did, you weren't allowed to come back. So you had to give up everything if you decided to leave the Soviet Union. But she was lucky, she was a model, she was working as a model. And she was working for the government. So she was representing Russia, outside of the country. And in this highlight, she talks about the first time she leaves the Soviet Union and experienced other country and other culture when she goes to Australia. And this was she said,
So um, we were taking a flight from Moscow, going to India for stop, then from India to Singapore, from Singapore to Brisbane. So my first stop was in Delhi airport, India. And when we stepped out from the airplane, and I saw something what I've never seen before, and people speak different language around, that was shock.
Then the next step was Singapore. And you can imagine the level of shock there. We were sitting in the airport, this is the I mean, I would say the most gorgeous airport in the world. And after that, we switch the airplane from Singapore to Brisbane, we were taken cuantas. And you cross in them? How do you call that line between North and South in the middle of the law? Yes. So we're crossing that line. And they were given us champagne and chocolate and congratulations, you go into the other part of the earth. And when we the flight took about seven hours, when we finally landed in Brisbane, I don't even remember what I mean, how many hours was the whole tree, probably about 24. And it was the stops and all of that. And when we left the airport, and somebody came to pick us up, it was a little minivan. And I looked around and I couldn't believe my I mean, I was thinking I'm sleeping because first of all the cars are going left right, right, like like a long gun. And people speak English. Nobody speak Russian and the weather is beautiful. It's sunshine and the birds are chirping and like some kind of crazy things going on. The smells are different. Music is everywhere. People are smiling people have some tan. people wearing nice clothes. Yeah, that was that was amazing.
Daniel De Biasi 19:04
For many people, myself included, moving to a new country and dealing with immigration to stay in the new country is one of the biggest challenges but from my conversation with you Vika, she said that one of the biggest challenge for her was actually to try and find a good job. It goes in the United States. If you are not apparently a resident or American citizen, it's really hard to get a job. Most companies don't hire you in in the process of hiring you. One requirement is actually to be an American citizen or American permanent resident. And in these ilight she talks about obstacles and challenges she has to face to land a really good job. And this is what she said.
I think the biggest challenge was to get a job. Yeah, get a get a good job, get a job that I wanted. And I had okay jobs like where I was able to use my college degree and my basic skills but the job that I have Today, I think was probably the hardest job to get. Because I, even though I was, you know, a good student and I worked really hard, I just think that there's just some companies that don't hire non US citizens and non permanent residents. And I remember going to all the information sessions and meeting with companies, and I was like, I want to apply, and people would get really excited that I'm applying. But then when I would fill out the application form, and they say, Are you a US citizen or permanent resident, then it would be like rejection. So I think, for me to get basic jobs is okay, but to get the next level jobs, like really, really good paying jobs, where you can, you know, support yourself and your family and everything that this job is like that. And I feel like, I worked so hard. And I think I'm just lucky that I got it. But it was definitely very stressful. And I was really disappointed to see the circle. So many companies don't want to deal with that. And I think they don't want to deal with it, because maybe they have to do paperwork, maybe they have to deal with the risk that, you know, their visa could get rejected. But it's all like a cycle, like the government doesn't want to help us that much. So then the companies don't want to help, you know, it's like a cycle, because they're scared that this person will have to leave.
Daniel De Biasi 21:30
One of the beauty about living your country and moving to a new one is the number of opportunity you find in any country you moved in. And this is not just my experience, it's actually what I hear from from my guest, one of the upside about moving to a new country is the number of opportunity you find, and where those opportunity takes you. Before I know, that wasn't the case, the biggest upside about moving to America from India, was actually the freedom to be yourself, and the freedom to not be judged by other people. And the next highlight are no shares or experience when she moved to the US. This what she said,
when I moved to the US, I felt like I just came home, I didn't feel like I was an outsider, I didn't even feel that I have like, I wasn't judged. Basically, in India, I was judged for being too ambitious of God. Everybody, just me like you know, goals can be this ambitious goals can do this, you're poor, you're not supposed to do this, you're supposed to do this, and just live your life and be poor all your life. That was the kind of judgment I had received back in India. But then when I moved here, I was like, How come? Are people so easily accepting me here? nobody's asking me questions about like, what my, what my parents do what I did for the freedom and the independence to think itself was a big change, I'd say and big change, accepting change, because I didn't feel those restrictions. So I didn't find anything difficult to just get into the culture. And I am surprisingly, I was the only person in my class who made lots of friends, with Americans and international people. So that is something that I didn't think earlier. But I found out it's very rare for an immigrant to integrate with their non native friends. The first one I had was American. And she was like I am Why do I understand you but I don't understand others when they talk. I have no idea.
Daniel De Biasi 23:33
It was a part of because he felt less judged by Americans that you were maybe from people from your own country.
Yeah. So I couldn't be more of myself.
Daniel De Biasi 23:41
Correct me if I'm wrong. But I think this kind of like environment that fuels you with even more ambitions. And I think we have, I can do this, I can do that. I can do whatever they want at this point, right?
Yes, yeah. So honestly, if I were in India, I wouldn't have been able to do what I'm doing. Like, I wouldn't have been able to sit on this podcast, because I'd have responsibilities imposed on me,
Daniel De Biasi 24:05
I know has a really good story that she shared in the interview. I recommend listen to it if you haven't done it yet. And if you are an immigrant, what was your biggest upside about moving to a new country? And if you're planning to move abroad, what are you looking for? When you move to a new country? Let me know in the comment section at Amiens live.com slash spatial 2020. Just scroll down to the bottom of the page and just write a comment. I look forward to hear your thoughts and what's what's your upside or what you're looking for. If you're planning to move abroad, the next highlight is for you. Laurie shares a point of view about moving to a new country, even though she said it was very scary. But she fought that no matter what if she decided that the decision she made was in the right decision. She can always go back to an arrow life in Canada. I know every situation is different. But if you have the option that you can go back to your country if you made the wrong decision. So why not why Not trying to move to a new country and try different experience, if you have the opportunity, I think you should do it. And Laurie also thinks he thinks you should do it. And these are advice,
Canada is one of the best countries to come from. I don't doubt that. And I feel very proud to be from Canada, and you know, so much about Canada, I do love and I do miss. But it's, I just think that having the ability to go and live abroad somewhere else and experience, the world is huge. You know, there's so many different cultures and so much to see in the world. So just to stay in one spot your whole life, when you have the ability to, you know, go and live abroad somewhere, people should take advantage of that, if they can, and I know it's scary in so many ways. But you know, the payoffs for it, I think, are much much outweigh the, you know, the fears that come along with it. So yeah, I definitely feel so lucky to be able to come up here and do that. And you know, the thing I always tell myself, because it is scary before, you know, I've lived abroad a few times, but each time before going, I always get that, you know, cold feet, or that anxiety of moving abroad. But, you know, I just kind of tell myself, like, Canada is always there. So anytime it doesn't work out, or if I want to go back, it doesn't mean I failed, it just means, you know, maybe it was I tried, and maybe it wasn't the right choice, I can always go back home. And, you know, it'll always be there. But you know, that opportunity to move abroad. If it's if it's there for you take it because it might not always be there.
Daniel De Biasi 26:26
Most of the story of my guest, and the article we wrote about the famous immigrants are for people that move from a country to the United States. Before re My next guest, it was the opposite. It was leaving in the US. And inside to leave because it was felt too comfortable. I can really relate with what Ray said in the interview. And I selected this little highlight of the tipping point, when he decided to really be in the states and move to Mexico. The Tipping Point was a quote, a quote from an advertisement on TV.
But I think a lot of what happens in life is you kind of get stuck in these patterns, right? You're kind of stuck get stuck on this path without even realizing it. And I was just following it. As I mentioned, graduate college, get a good job, buy a house and buy a bigger house and buy a bigger house, right. That's the American dream that they talked about. And I just thought I never questioned. So I was kind of on that path. I was in a city, you know, Cleveland, Ohio, which is not an awful place to live. But it's kind of the most bla place in the United States. I joke that there's a reason why when you ever you watch those American shows, and they want to kind of put a typical American town, they're always in Ohio, like doesn't matter what show Malcolm in the Middle all of them, they're always based in Ohio, because it's kind of the most blonde place in the entire country. It's not too liberal is not too conservative. It's just kind of in the middle there. And I found that I was kind of I was comfortable. And now looking back, that's kind of where most people I think get stuck. They don't get stuck because they're miserable. When you're miserable, you try to change your life, right? But the most dangerous thing is when you're comfortable. Because then you don't make the effort to change or make your life better. You're like I'm okay. So I'd rather be okay and not risk it. Or instead of risk it's and maybe have a great life out of it. So I was in that state until I was about 26. I was a computer engineer, I was making a good salary. I had a condo I had a car, you know, the only thing left for me was a bigger house, you know, bigger condo and a bigger car. That was kind of it, you know, get married and just get stuck there all the time. So that was the path I was on. So what broke me out of that pattern, let's call it is honestly a commercial on TV. So I think deep down inside, I was starting to feel like it was off, right? I was like, you know, there's got to be more to life than this. But I hadn't really said it. I had never mentioned it to my family or to anybody else. Right? It was just kind of this nagging feeling on the inside that there's gotta be more to life than this. And then I saw a commercial on TV and it has my favorite quote, and it's up on the wall in my office right now I made a I custom made a poster for it because I couldn't find anybody who's made a poster for it. I did not come up with a saying I can't think I can't find who did. But the saying is if they were to write a book about your life, would anybody want to read it? It was on a commercial for the US Navy. Now my respects to everybody in the military, but I'm too scared for that kind of stuff. So they start shooting at me, I'm gonna start running away. So I had no intention of joining the military. But the quote stayed with me. I saw it on TV multiple times. And I'm like, wow, no, nobody's gonna read the book about my life. My life is boring. I go to a cube every day and I write code. Yeah, I might have stuff at the end of my life, right? I might have a big house, I might have a car, but nobody's gonna read a book about it. I wouldn't read a book about it. So that's what kind of got the ball rolling. And it was a really fastball after that. I mean, I saw that commercial, went to work the next day. What happened to work the next day was pure coincidence. There was a somebody who had worked at the company I was working at, at the time for 40 years great company. I worked at always top 50 places to work in the United States. They treated us really well. I got invited to his, like a little lunch where they were giving him a watch saying thank you for 40 years of dedicated service to this company. And I was sitting there, I was a team lead. He was, you know, he was a team lead there, all the other team leads were in there. And I remember thinking to myself is like, Look, I know, he's, you know, I've been to his house for barbecues, he's got a nice house, he paid for his kids to go to college, his life is good, or his life is okay. But I don't want that life. 40 years down the road, I do not want that watch.
Daniel De Biasi 30:29
Okay, now the lorry and Ray convinced you to move abroad, I want you to listen to what Jamie's Esther said, because she wrote a beautiful book about resilience, where she talks about the adjustment cycles that everybody, all of us going through when we move abroad, I really find it funny, because I went through those cycles without even realizing and the fact that we all go through those cycles, and I even found the same thing, and especially being judgmental about the new custom, the newest things, the new lifestyle in a new country and found these with other people I met in my, in my experience in my life that I've been through the same kind of judgment and the same kind of cycles. So I think if you're playing them abroad, I think it is really, really, really important to know, the cycles that are normal. So we don't have to be hard on yourself if you find yourself in those situation. And I recommend listen to this whole episode, because this is really interesting and funny. But this is one of the section where she talks about the adjustment cycles.
Yeah, so they're very well researched and studied patterns of adjustment that people move through. And you know, I've seen it represented as a W curve, I've seen it represented as just a series of ups and downs. And so the one that I that I tend to favor and relate to and work with is the one that I'll describe to you. And you know, you can almost visualize it. Some people visualize it like a roller coaster, sometimes it's not so steep, it could just be small peaks and valleys. But usually, before we go overseas, we have a mix of emotion. So we're kind of above and below, right, almost imagine kind of a straight line that represents your life at home. And before you move, you have that excitement kind of above the line, this is an adventure, I'm looking forward to it. And then you have those feelings below the line where you're, you're nervous, you're anxious, you're not sure what awaits you, there's so much uncertainty. And you know, when you arrive, it's often the honeymoon period for people because everything's new and exciting. So we're not necessarily thinking about the long term. But we're just, you know, maybe doing some sightseeing, trying some new foods, were unpacking or looking for a place to live, we're getting all our basic necessities settled in a way. But the first dip that we tend to encounter has to do with external things. So you know, maybe anything that would be easy at home becomes a monumental task. So maybe you try to find a store you're looking for. And instead of, you know, taking 20 minutes, you go the wrong direction and an hour and a half later, you still haven't gotten there, or you go to the supermarket, and you look for a favorite ingredient or something that you need to cook with. And you just can't find it,
Daniel De Biasi 33:20
exactly what I was talking about before but about food like where's my tomato sauce, it was
exactly or even worse, you buy something that you think is one thing only to come home and realize it's another because you can't read the the ingredients on it. So you may think that you're buying one thing and realize it's totally different. So those are a lot of you know, external things that every x Pat basically has to move through that part of the cycle. Because if you want to settle somewhere, you need to have your basic necessities settled. So once you come through that external shock of sorts, you come to a place that we might call a surface adjustment. And that's a place that sometimes people stop that you may stop in your adjustment there, perhaps you're not really interested in the deep dive learning about the culture, perhaps you will never learn the local language enough to truly integrate. So imagine that, you know, you're an English speaker who moves to rural China, it's going to become really hard to grow have that level of language ability to integrate on a deeper level. Or sometimes military families. They may be living on a base in a foreign country but not really immersed in the culture. So often people stop there, but then if they don't, they can continue on. In which case you'd go through the second dip, which is more the internal shock. That's when we question ourselves. This is when their resilience comes into play a lot because maybe we think, you know, I used to feel really funny and Italian and You know, in English, I don't know, people don't find me as funny, or I used to feel really efficient at work and time moves differently in this culture. So we have a lot of self doubt in this stage, that's where we really do need to cultivate that resilience, to move through and eventually come to this point of, of integration.
Daniel De Biasi 35:20
And if it's normal to be judgmental of the country just moved in what happened when you move to a country where your partner is from, and that was the case from Yana and aurvey. She's from Germany, and he's from France. And he lived in both countries. And when one of them was judgmental, the other person felt offended because they were offending their country. And they realized that the best way for them was leaving in a neutral territory is fetullah. First, and then the US and the next two islands, I want to replay the interview where they're talking about this specific topic, ladies first, this is the highlights from piano,
I asked, I also have to say like, for my husband and me, we like to live in a country other than the country where he is from, so France or the country where I am from Germany. So we like the lot to live in Switzerland, for example, the two of us, because this is like a neutral country, also the US for us is kind of neutral, because we are both new to this culture. So we can both take the same path. And it's new for us. And we observe the same thing things and we find them interesting or sometimes funny, or Wow. And if whereas if we live in his home culture, or in mine, one of us only is the foreigner. And then I cannot stand if he is starting to criticize some German particularities because I feel offended very quickly. I don't know why. And he feels offended very quickly, if I observe things that I don't find normal in France. So for us, it's better to be in a third culture.
Daniel De Biasi 37:01
Okay, the next highlight is from my interview with eBay, where it talks about the same topic, but on the perspective of their children's out to teach their children's their culture and bring them up in a way of where it's normal from their culture. And because they're coming from different countries, this culture are different. The things that you teach your kids are different, every share many funny stories in the interview, and this specific one was about this event, where he he Yana had a different approach of teaching kids on the playground, there was a story
well, there's something fascinating about I would say mix couple was to culture like like Korea, is that your is of the feeling certain moments that you can give both aspect to the kids and the kids will only grow with both aspects. It's a bit like the immigrant going to another country, and the world is smaller. But there's also when you have children together, you start to see some small egoism, where you try to pull towards you to you as you value because you want your kids to be more French or more German. And we had this experience and I can give you as a small story, which I think is funny, and anybody would hear your podcast was French or German would could you understand that? So we were on a playground and in Germany we have the most amazing playgrounds Do they have like purple is water and sand and so so they can play with water, we sand and so on. And I see my kids were very small want to go where there is water and sand because there is mud and they want to go into murders and the kids would go if the parents stopped them as a French I was like oh well I take the kids and put them like 10 meters apart from this water source with some with immured also as they will be very dirties and they're in the car. So and and then I picked up a coffee or an ice cream or something like that. And when I came back I saw Yana taking the kids and putting them in the mud and I see arrivare season putting them in what are you doing? And she say they need to experience the material you know and so in the German culture they really want kids to to experience and is a French is more like probably Italians Oh, you want the kids to stay clean? So it's one anecdote but I would not call it conflict but you we had quite some discussion about what our values and and we realize really with the kids are important certain value of childhoods were coming from ourselves and before we start oh we are very open a value you values you value minds and but then we had like a the something quite interesting I think that we realized was with the children.
Daniel De Biasi 39:42
Okay, the next highlight is about kids and adjustment in a new country. Yana actually wrote a book about this topic is called Jamie and a big move. Yana actually introduced me to my next guest, Tanya and Tanya I had a problem with the kids when they moved to Spain. One of our kids had some problem adjusting to new culture, and she has to take some measure. And this what she did to our kids to overcome this judgment and to get used to the new culture.
We had the kids in an international school. So they did not have to switch completely to Spanish or Catalan. When we first moved there, they were able to learn it gradually, because their friends could mostly speak English. But I think the tipping point was when I decided that I needed to pull her out of school, if I felt that just the whole experience of being in school being around so many different people all the time, as well as being in a new country, new neighborhood, new sort of new everything that maybe I should remove one of those things from her life that was giving her a lot of stress. And so we I decided to homeschool her during our second year. But then I realized shortly after that, that it's illegal to homeschool in Spain. So yeah. So they were there on visas, of course through my husband's job. And they would not renew our visas, if the kids were not enrolled full time in school. So after homeschooling for only a couple months, we have to re register her back into school. But I think just those three months of being able to homeschool or being able to create a curriculum that met her needs, and she improved drastically, it was a really, really good experience, she was able to, I don't know, have more control, I think over her own situation. And I think that helped her gave her a lot more confidence. And she was able to go back to school. And of course, by the time we left Spain, she didn't want to leave Spain. So that was another experience.
Daniel De Biasi 41:56
There's no doubt that when you move to a new country, you have to face some challenges. But how you face these challenges can change the experience you're having in this country. Some people takes longer to get over this challenges and to get used to the new country. But some people like my next guest, Arif love these kinds of challenges, because you could learn from these challenges. And these is this mindset of facing challenges.
There was always challenges. There was a lot of challenges, language, food, mindset, many different challenges. And then I actually love the frustration, the agony to cope up with your surroundings, you know, all the time, but at the same time, you are also learning, it's a very good experience. And I feel that when you move out of the country, if you think that I am, hey, I'm already outside of my comfort zone, I'm here to learn. And that aptitude for learning actually move you ahead, you just move on, you learn something, you make a mistake, or you get some success. That's the whole thing actually doesn't matter success or failure, it just keeps moving. It keeps you moving on is the aptitude for learning, I would say I think everyone should move out of home after one third of their life. Just to learn, right? Like there is a saying that if you want to get educated go to China is just saying that move out, go to a longer distance meet different people meet new people, right? Make new new culture learn. Yeah,
Daniel De Biasi 43:29
some of these challenges, especially if you move abroad or the young age can be simple things like dude grocery or do the laundry or cleaning a house, that kind of things. And definitely that was for me, I think was a challenge. But I definitely was something that I had to learn how to do it. And my next guest is talking about exactly this when he left England to move to us. And he was leaving still living with his parents. And he never done laundry or never done the grocery because his mom was taking care of it. And his parents fault he will not survive on his own when he moved to to the new country when you move abroad. But instead, he managed to take care of himself and he's now been living in the US for a long time. And in this ilight is telling the story.
My parents were a little bit surprised when when I said I wanted to leave. I mean again, I coming from a very, you know, Southeast Asian background. Yeah, my my I will say my mom did everything for me. Like I never had to cook and clean or anything like that. My mom took very good care of me. Sounds familiar? Yeah. Yes. And so I think I think they were a bit surprised because I was getting to go move to California and move to San Francisco live in an apartment on my own, actually. And I did have a roommate in the end. But yeah, I would have to do everything myself. Like I have to cook and clean and take care of myself and have no health and we have no help. Right. Like it's not like I'm moving across town or something like that. I'm even across the world. So I think I think my parents were a little bit surprised and they were very supportive. They were like, yeah, if there's something that you Want to do you know, but I think secretly they, they thought, oh, he'll be there for a month and he'll hate it because he'll have to do everything himself and you know, he's not gonna be happy.
And he'll be back soon enough, but now it's been a long time and I'm still here,
Daniel De Biasi 45:16
He will come back with the laundry.
If I if I mean, had I lived across town, I probably would have, I didn't really have that option.
Daniel De Biasi 45:27
I hope you enjoyed this episode with highlights of 2020 is definitely been a year full of learning. For me. I never done interviews I've never done even like a recording my own voice, it's been weird. And I hope you enjoy listening to the stories as much as I did, recording them and interviewing 2021 it's gonna be full of more stories, if you want to share your story, or if you know, anybody, just visit emigrants. life.com slash your story. And if there, you can submit your story, you can just fill up this form and submit your story. It's really easy. All it takes a few few minutes. And I will get in touch with you. And also while you're on the website, if you if you want if you like you can subscribe to the newsletter. And so because 2021 is going to be full of new new stuff, and working right now through this holiday. On the website. There's a bunch of new new stuff, there's going to come up with a new website, a new way for you to listen to the episodes, more articles, a new section for more resources for people that wants to move abroad, they can find all the resources. If you have any tip, any recommendation and suggestion you can email me directly at Daniel at immigrants live calm, or you can find me on social media, you can find me on social media, you can write me directly there. And I want to use this episode even to thank my assistant hired his assistant a few months ago, actually almost at the beginning of the podcast, because working full time and taking care of the podcast is a lot, a lot of work. So I want to thank Sophia, my assistant to to help me with all the social media stuff that she's doing. She's doing a great job, all the articles about famous immigrants. They're from her, she doing all the research, she writes all the article, and she's she's doing an amazing job. So I want to thank her for doing that. And if you want to support the show, as usual, you can write a review that really helps finding other people finding this podcast finding the show, and I'll talk to you in the next episode and next interview. Thank you very much for listening. Have a happy holiday and Happy New Year. Ciao.
Aeron's story proves that your circumstances don't determine your future.